Well, it had to happen, and sooner rather than later. An ATF-approved Glock-off frame that a home hobbyist can complete himself, producing a legal “Ghost Glock.”
Like any Glock frame, it’s adaptable to multiple uppers (and therefore calibers) that suit the same generation (it’s made for Glock G3 parts) and length (full length, a la G17) receiver. One frame supports two slides, three calibers, and nine Glock model-equivalents.
The frame is not only incomplete, requiring several areas to be milled or drilled out, but also Glock spare and aftermarket parts just went up in price, and some enterprising fellow that can assemble complete kits is going to have a good business. (Polymer-80 promises them, too, in the unspecified future sometime after the January, 2016 predicted date for the lowers).
Here’s some of what they say about it on their intro page:
Let’s switch gears now and briefly talk about the pistol frame design and all of its features and benefits.
The high level overview is this frame is designed as an 80% frame, and includes all the necessary end mill bits and drill bits, along with the Jig to assist completing your pistol project accurately. Most people use a drill press with a cross vise to mill out the product, many folks have drill presses sitting in their garages, or can find someone who has one available to borrow. The frame accepts Glock17 9mm slides, as well as the Glock 40 caliber slide. The Smith and Wesson 40cal slide is also compatible with the Sig357 barrel configuration, which essentially gives you 3 different calibers to choose from.
Unlike the Glock, this frame includes a uniquely extended beaver-tail, and most notably a super tactical 1911 pistol grip rather than the standard glock styled pistol grip. Even better, this pistol grip includes a built in flared magwell for speed loading. This feature will surely be a favorite amongst competition shooters who require speed and accuracy.
We note that the original 3D printed (yes!) prototype they submitted to the ATF to approval had a more traditional Glock grip angle, as this ATF photo shows:
“NFC” is a reference to the ATF’s reference collection of firearms. This image is not entirely square on, but you can see how the angle of the grip has been reduced:
The front of the trigger guard appears now to be orthogonal to the barrel axis (that’s 90º for you CMF 55 ammunition handlers). The Picatinny rail and aggressively flared magwell of the prototype have been retained.
Finally, the areas that need to be milled out to complete this project include:
- The barrel bridge
- The top rails of the receiver
- The slide guide rails
Once completed, you insert the custom locking block which comes with the kit, it provides additional metallic rails up front.
We assume (that dread word) that the locking block has weight enough to meet the so-called Undetectable Firearms Act metallic minimum.
They also have a Q&A here, promising “build, buy, shoot” kits later, and multiple colors.
The ATF letter for the Polymer-80 “Spectre” [.pdf] (formerly called the GC9) demonstrates that the part is approved by Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) as “not a receiver” (the pistol reciever blank is discussed after the firm’s .308 “Warhogg” polymer receiver blank).
In case Polymer-80 is hit by a truck, here’s our OCR’d copy of the letter: ATF Determination Letter for Polymer 80 OCR.pdf
Lessons from the ATF Letter
There are three points we learned from the ATF letter that are extremely interesting to us, and probably each is worth a post on its own to explore in depth:
- The submission was not a final injection-molded partial receiver. (Polymer-80 is up front about the fact that they’re using customer deposits to have the complex multi-part mold made). Instead, Polymer-80’s attorney submitted the part in an additive-manufactured form that was dimensionally identical to the proposed injection-molded part, but possibly manufactured from different plastic. This was insightful on Polymer-80’s part opens up a lot of possibilities for both firearms and near-gun part designers to submit for ATF designation earlier in the design process. (An approval letter will help with fundraising).
- As is customary for FTB, The letter goes to great lengths to disclaim any applicability to any other case. It is the ATF’s position that these decisions are non-precedential, and can change any time with the whim of FTB, or more seriously, the real managers of ATF, the chief counsel’s office. This is their document, in the instant case, today; they do not wish to be held to it at any future date or in any future location.
- The FTB letter goes into depth about the part’s non-firearm status under the Gun Control Act, 18 USC § 921(a)(3)(B), but also fires a shot across Polymer-80’s bow, noting that they are also regulated by Washington’s latest anti-gun agency, the State Department:
Please be aware, while not classified as a “firearm”; the submitted items are each classified as a “defense article” as defined in 27 CFR § 447.11. The US Department of State (USPS) regulates all exports from, and particular imports into, the United States. Firearms, parts, and accessories for firearms are all grouped as “defense articles” by the USDS and overseen by there Directorate of Defense Trade Controls. Information regarding import/export of defense articles can be found on their website at www.pmddtc.state.gov.
This also comes, no doubt, from the extremely anti-gun Chief Counsel’s Office in conjunction with their fellow DC anti-gunners at State. It represents not only State’s grab for extra-legislative anti-gun regulatory powers, but an attempt at implementing the signed, but unsubmitted for ratification, UN Small Arms (gun ban) Treaty.
Hat tip, Mike at ENDO, one of our 2013 Wednesday Weapons Websites of the Week. Mike notes that it might be a bigger seller at a lower price. Our guess is that the firm must recoup its mold-making expenses. (Priced injection-molding molds lately? They’re a task for a very limited subset of machinists and machine shops, although for small parts and short runs you can improvise a mold with epoxy facings on an aluminum frame). In the long run, prices may come down, especially if there is market competition.
Hmm… who’s got a good 3D file of a G3 Glock lower?
Kevin was a former Special Forces weapons man (MOS 18B, before the 18 series, 11B with Skill Qualification Indicator of S). His focus was on weapons: their history, effects and employment. He started WeaponsMan.com in 2011 and operated it until he passed away in 2017. His work is being preserved here at the request of his family.
13 thoughts on “Polymer 80% Glock Frames Available for Pre-Order”
Not for me at that price. Don’t like the idea of the polymer frame rails in the back either.
Hi Ken, totally understand your apprehension about the price. We had a number of our customers question that as well.
We heavily researched the price of a 100% frame, and found that it averages about $199.99. There are very FEW distributors that make the said frame, so finding them for cheaper can be tough. With the “Spectre” you are receiving a pre-order price of $135.99, a pistol frame, jig, and all the components needed to make the frame into a 100% which shouldn’t take you more than an hour or 2 of careful work. Also there is no requirement for FFL which is cost saving as well. We feel like that easily justifies our pre-release price.
To address your issue with the back rails. We originally wanted them to be steel as well, but upon delving further into the project, our designers found that we would have to over-mold the back rails which would cause the frame to be classified as a firearm per the ATF even in it’s incomplete state. That is why we had to make the decision to go with polymer in the back. The frame is still very structurally sound.
We hope that will alleviate some of your concerns. Feel free to email me if you have any further questions, [email protected]
V.P. of Marketing
Alex, thanks for your answers to our readers’ questions!
Thanks for the comments. I worked in the tool and die business and I understand that something like this is expensive to get going. I don’t think the price unfair, just not a compelling reason for me to buy. Other than the satisfaction of “sticking it to the man”
I will keep an eye on it though and might consider it some day for a .22 upper.
Hmmm. One of these things, and one of Jon Ceiner’s .22 Glock17/19 or22/23 conversion kits….Oh Santa Claus….
***Mike notes that it might be a bigger seller at a lower price. ***
Or with wider distribution for a better economy of scale, bringing the price per unit down.
A national distributor, perhaps:
Hey Archy, if you know any national distributors that are willing to promote and sell the “Spectre” 80% Polymer Pistol Frame, send them our way! We are always looking for distributors who run an E-store or brick&mortar Gun Shop.
Their pricing is reasonable considering it is a kit with tooling and a fixture.
If you figure what the 80% lower pricing for a 1911 is without tooling and jig, it is a pretty good deal, you basically recoup the cost of tooling and fixture on your first build.
It is a win win.
The whole market for 80% receivers is a great way of saving by building your own, (never mind the intrinsic value “Eff You factor” to the hoplophobes. Like as in “you didn’t build that barry”), especially for the AR rifle. There is so many options. You can build a mil spec part reliable no frills rifle for around $500 now, with things like 7 inch twist and chrome lined bore, and have extra left over to spend on a good optic and magazines, gear and ammo.
Don’t get much better than that than if you could pick up battle field drops off the dead bodies of cultural marxists.
This is bitter clinger stuff to the max.
Once you build your first weapon, everything changes. It is transformative.
And you have to appreciate it all if for no other reason than it is pure liberty in action. You have all the essentials at work, property, free economic activity, industrial and inventive spirit, self determination, and acquisition of arms unencumbered by tyrannical power.
What’s not to like here?
It is really beginning to take off in so many ways.
Very nice to see… AR’s, 1911’s and now Glock’s.
I think I saw 10-22’s a while back too.
What should the next three be?
Something popular, perhaps the M-9 and …..
There are AK based 80% receivers, and a company that offers 80% uppers for 17 Mach II, 22 LR, and 22 Mag with full kits as an option based on the 10-22.
Another offers unfinished reviver components for PSH series sub guns, Stens, Beretta, and Sterlings. http://www.indianapolisordnance.com/index.html
This is a nifty piece, an AR trigger jig. A creative mind could find a lot of uses for it. A great starting point for a variety of projects. And the price is right, you could experiment and not be to concerned if you had to scrap one out.
If I put my S&W Sigma’s slide and barrel on it will I be sued?
hmmm… that’s one way around some of #Failiornia’s stupid pistol laws.
gotta show this to Resident Evil
just noticed i can’t build a 45ACP out of this…