Caching your Guns for a Civil War, Parts I and II

Many people are talking about the possibility of a civil war. Some people are acting as if one is going to happen. The intersection between those sets is almost zero.

Part 1: Some obstacles to caching

Three can keep a secret, if two are dead. All the Haganah underground operatives kept the secret of this cache in Northern Israel. It was discovered by accident after they had all died.

Three can keep a secret, if two are dead. All the Haganah underground operatives who knew the secret of this cache in Northern Israel took it to their graves. It was discovered by accident in January, 2014, after they had all died. (Story at The Blaze with links to Israeli media, some in Hebrew).

First, if you live in a state with licensing and registration, you’re screwed. Even if they don’t have all your weapons in their files, they know you have weapons. They can come and shake down your home and curtilage at their leisure. Registration and Licensing doesn’t solve crimes, and it certainly doesn’t prevent them. It is one thing only: a cheat sheet for confiscation.  For that, it’s the cat’s pajamas.

We’ve heard a lot of bravado about boating accidents and long-ago sales to a tall short black guy with red hair and freckles. You can pull this off in one two-pronged case: no one else at all knows about your weapons and your plans, and you can resist intense interrogation. (Unless you have been trained in interrogation resistance in a resistance training lab, you probably can’t). This is completely without torture or threats to relatives, both of which will be available and in use in a civil war. Those two techniques can usually break even the trained resister.

Second, don’t rely on Oathkeepers bluster (another word beginning with “b” also fits). They mean what they say now, but things will be different then. Police will have no problem cracking down on you because (1) most cops will follow any plausibly legitimate authority; (2) human beings are born to rationalize; and (3) you’ll be demonized long before you’re raided. They won’t whack you, they’ll be whacking your indescribably monstrous straw man evil twin.

Every totalitarian state in history made liberal use of the ordinary cops for its political roundups, and no police element has ever mutinied or walked off the job when faced with that task. For example, the Gestapo and SS did not need to round up the Jews in occupied France: the ordinary French beat cops were glad to do it. None of them was ever punished; they transferred their loyalty seamlessly and unquestionably from the 3rd Republic to Vichy to the occupying power to the 4th Republic. Likewise, the Weimar cops became Nazi cops, who in turn became East or West German cops, and now unified Federal German cops. Hitler? Stalin? Who cares, we can retire at 45 with a good pension, and no one will miss a few Jews.

Third, don’t expect most people to back you. For every active resister, there are 20 dedicated, clandestine supporters. For every dedicated supporter there are 20 active and open collaborators. You active resisters will be outnumbered 400 to 1 by the Quislings. And even they will be a minority. Most people will hunker down and try not to be involved. The side that pressures them will get their loyalty and compliance — as long as it outpressures its opponents, and as long as the pressure is applied.

Still wondering why civil wars get ugly, fast?

Fourth, if you’re fantasizing about this civil war, stop now. We’ve seen civil wars, and we’ve seen how a place can go from civilized to Hobbsean state of nature in jig time. The American Revolution has been sanitized in our history but even it, the cleanest and most civil of civil wars, was unbearably nasty. The victors wrote the history; the losers, the Tories or Loyalists, took ship. Or died. After losing everything. A new Civil War might look more like the last one, with new Mosbys, Booths, and certainly new Andersonvilles. Or it might resemble the Spanish Civil War, or the French Revolution. When Americans unhappy with government think of the French Revolution, they think of their opponents in the tumbrils. Remember the fate of Robespierre and the Jacobins was no different from that of the Girondins or the Bourbons. Remember that practically none of the Old Bolsheviks died of natural causes.

But if, after all that, you still want to be prepared for survival or resistance, read on. The lessons learned you are about to receive here are distilled from thirty-plus years in the practice of insurgency, UW, FID, and COIN, and a very great deal of study. They also incorporate the lessons learned from a sensitive — once, highly classified — strategic cache program that was meant to arm clandestine stay-behind forces and the resistance armies they would raise.

Part II: The Enemies of Cached Weapons

The enemies of your cached weapons, dear insurgent, are many. They are rust, and its valkyries water and air; construction and development; discovery; documentation; human frailty; and obsolescence.

These weapons, buried during the League of Nations mandate and recovered only last year, were well preserved.

These weapons, buried during the League of Nations mandate and recovered only last year, were well preserved. Careful packaging and Israel’s arid climate protected them from Air, Water and therefore Rust.

Rust is a term for corrosion in ferrous metals. Essentially, iron plus air (especially damp, moist air) yields iron oxide, which is everything steel is not: weak, crumbly, almost worthless (well, you can make an incendiary mixture with it. But your guns are not the best feedstock for that; it’s not like rust is hard to come by).

You protect weapons from rust with permanent coatings like paint or parkerizing, temporary coatings like grease, vacuum-bagging them if you have the capability, and storing them in naturally or artificially dry places.

Even non-ferrous metals and supposedly “stainless” metals will corrode in the right conditions.

Water is principally a problem because of its propensity to accelerate rust. But it also has two other properties: it tends to wick into almost anywhere, and if it’s flowing, it can wear through anything. The Grand Canyon? That’s nothing but applied water and time.

Air is a problem because it contains all the ingredients for rust except the iron: water vapor and oxygen. It also can contain pollutants that accelerate corrosion.

Development is a threat to a surprising number of caches. Europeans periodically wake up to a news story of a cache of weapons or other stuff from the Cold War or World War II. The Nazis cached hundreds of tons of arms for a Werwolf resistance that fizzled out, partly because the Nazi state’s defeat made its ideology much less compelling, and partly because all four Allies had no compunction at all about shooting Werwolf suspects, even children. These unused caches get unearthed in Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic by urban and rural development all the time. They’re usually old, forgotten, neglected caches in bad shape.

Apart from concealment, which was often good, the Werwolf caches were a pretty good example of how not to conduct a strategic cache program.

While some hazards are easy to defend against — you can “set ’em and forget ’em” — defense against development requires long-term curation. If a cache is implanted, someone must monitor it, and when development encroaches, move it. Therefore, the caches that are discovered are the ones that are haphazardly monitored or that were implanted by defunct organizations that never took up, or failed at, monitoring.

It is also helpful to emplace caches in locations that are away from either axes of likely future development, potential high value positions or targets in civil or general war (such as key terrain), or potential bivouac locations of hostile forces.

Discovery is the accidental location, exposure, or penetration of the cache, not as a result of counterguerrilla or counterespionage activity, nor as a result of development-related excavation. Your likely discoverers are hunters, hikers, and, especially, kids.

Guard against it by placing the cache on difficult terrain, and concealing the cache well.

There appears to have been no documentation of the Haganah cache. It was concealed well enough that the discovery came almost 70 years after the Haganah's clandestine war was won.

There appears to have been no Documentation of the Haganah cache. It was concealed well enough that its Discovery came almost 70 years after the Haganah’s clandestine war was won.

Documentation is a double-aged sword. It allows for the recovery or relocation of caches even if no responsible individual is available (a real risk in UW). It is useful in the demobilization phase after victory has been achieved; or in an underground or dormant phase after a major defeat. But it also allows hostile forces to find and recover caches, or even worse, surveil them and roll up networks.

To counter these risks, documentation should be kept to a minimum and safeguarded, possibly with such measures as clandestine writing and encryption. Cache reports should never be transmitted by or filed on computers or electronic devices. (Assume all computers are bugged).

Human Frailty (memory and weakness) is what happens to most caches — not to put too fine a point on it, somebody rats them out.

The way to combat this is to enact strict positive vetting, need-to-know, and compartmentalization. No one should even know that there are caches unless the person’s trustworthiness has been established beyond doubt. No one should know any more about caches than he or she needs to, and that information must be given to the smallest practical number of people. And finally, no one should know about caches not relevant to his cell, mission, or location.

Obsolescence is the final problem with caches. If, mirabile dictu, things are so well packed and preserved that they’re not at risk, the canny old wizard we call Time still has one ace up his sleeve: obsolescence. You don’t know where it’s coming from; small arms development proceeds by a pattern of punctuated equilibrium. You can’t tell when technology will overthrow your stored ordnance. Rebels who buried their guns in 1800, or in 1900, would still be armed like a national army forty years later, but if they buried their guns in 1840 or 1940, they would dig up a bunch of very outdated hardware in 1880 or 1980. (We were, in fact, digging up — for inspection — caches planted in the 1940s periodically through the 1980s). But small arms performance plateaued enough in the 20th Century that the guns are the least of your worries. A guerrilla band armed today with Garands and MP.40s would still have considerable lethality, but there’s no hope for the crystal and tube radios of the 1940s for practical field communications. Likewise, medical equipment stored even a decade ago has been replaced in the real world by improved devices and products of new research.

There is no easy way to combat obsolescence. You have to be prepared to service the cache as we did during the cold war, a difficult and expensive undertaking fraught with risk to the servicer, the cache, and the security of the program.

To be continued in Part III: Types of Caches and IV: Cache Best Practices

We will learn that, as useful as it may be to consider the risks above, you’re going to find that if you want to use the cache or caches, you’re going to have to accept considerable risks beyond those. Indeed, the use of the cache is ever in tension with the security of same (a tradeoff with many, many parallels in the insurgent’s world).

And anything you can do can get you scarfed up. No pressure, though.

Look for Parts III and IV next week.

53 thoughts on “Caching your Guns for a Civil War, Parts I and II

    1. Hognose Post author

      I’m pretty sure that the officer’s name was H (Helmut, I think) Von Dach. The book Totaler Widerstand was published in Bern, and the translator borked it and made him “H Von Dach Bern.” Fun fact: the translator was a young USAR SF officer, later to retire as a Colonel and found Soldier of Fortune magazine.

  1. Aesop

    Thanks for laying out the Problem, from presumably an hour’s lecture, into a succinct 5-minute read.
    As much as I’ll enjoy the Solution portion of the lesson, I tend to think the fellow who advised “When it’s time to bury your guns, it’s probably time to dig them out” probably has the right of things.

  2. SemperFido

    Interesting reading. In many ways this country is ripe to become the next Balkans and any one who would wish for such an outcome is a fool.

    1. Krell51

      It boils down to fool or slave and I will not be a slave! But you are correct it is nothing to be wished for and everything to be avoided. An American civil war will be the most terrible bloody war the world has seen, including WW2.

      1. Heartlander

        A coming Civil War would not be the “civilized” set pieces of a Gettysburg or a Chancellorsville. It would be Missouri writ large. In Missouri, even “guerrilla war” is too nice a term to describe what went on in that state during the Civil War. It was chaos and butchery and the kind of mind-messing, world-turned-upside-down confusion that made people go insane (literally, there were many people whose personalities completely disintegrated because of the never knowing who was your friend and who was your enemy). Rebel thugs would put on Union uniforms to fool people, then shoot the people who were fooled. Women were forced to choose whether to watch their husband get shot, or their brother, or even their son. You never knew whether the person you’d been friends with all your life was now your enemy or not — and you never knew at what moment that old friend would turn on you. It was hell on earth. Read Michael Fellman’s book “Inside War” or Thomas Goodrich’s book “Black Flag” to get an idea of what the guerrilla war in Missouri was really like. THAT is what any future civil war in this country would be like. The prospect of it terrifies me.

  3. Tom Stone

    While I think a Civil (Good grief what a misnomer) war in the US is more likely than not I will turn in my guns and sit it out, or more likely end up in a camp because I am outspoken.
    I have a thrashed body that’s more than 60 years old.
    Spinal damage, a shoulder that pops out at the slightest excuse, arthritis and I am hard of hearing.
    And while armed resistance can make things messy some kid with a laptop can do a hell of a lot more damage than a “Squad” of insurgents with magical AR-15’s.
    My hat is off to anyone who resists a totalitarian government anywhere in the world, but getting out of bed this morning reminded me of how obtrusive reality can be.
    Thank God for vitamin “I”.

  4. Tim, '80s Mech Guy

    Good read, as usual.

    Slight tangent but anyone watched “Occupied” on Netflix?

  5. PBAR

    The unfortunate fact is that they don’t need to send armed people to your house to confiscate your weapons. Once they have an ownership list (whether by registration, getting background check info, data mining of credit card, etc.), it’s easy. All they have to do is tell you that you have to turn in your guns whenever you go to register your car, renew your driver’s license, file your taxes, apply for a student loan, vote, etc. How many of us could go without all those?

    1. Tim, '80s Mech Guy

      Ding Ding. They already check to see if you are behind on child support or some such when you go for a hunting license at Walmart down here, the template is in place.

      1. John Distai

        I have a scanning radio. It’s great fun to listen to. What’s sort of a bummer is how many people call the cops because they “think” something is going on. There’s already tons of “informers” that are more than happy to call on “suspicions”. It’s pretty sad.

  6. SPEMack

    If the ballot and soap boxes don’t work; I sincerly doubt my personal cartridge box will be big enough. No matter how well buried and protected against rust.

    Jackie’s Dad did Bosnia and Kosovo. I was in Southwest Baghdad in ’06. Civil war is a special kind of Hell.

  7. W. Fleetwood

    Two, maybe three, cents worth. What most people mean when they use the term “Cache” is really “Hide a Gun, or Guns”. In that regard thinking about how to keep your ex-wifes druggie son, who lived in the house for two years till he went to jail the first time, from finding them and stealing them to trade for dope is probably a better planning template than some Federal Agency crackdown.

    I suspect I’m anticipating your follow on Posts, but all the “Arms Caches” I was involved with hunting down, finding, and listening from a safe distance while some Sapper type dug into them, were actually concealed transit points in the pipeline between the Insurgent sanctuary and the Insurgent field units. They would usually have “This is for….” notes with them, often some “Go Team Go” propaganda, and occasionally comfort items such as gloves or cigarettes. The gloves were, of course, turned over to the Intel Wallahs. The cigarettes were confiscated on site (50/50 with the Sappers) because #We Deserve It.

    The one actual Cache we ever found was an actual, honest to God, flintlock musket. Complete with a bunch of flint pieces and two defused Chinese 82 mm mortar rounds from which the Cachee was scraping the black powder (Or close enough.) out of the cores with a broken pocket knife. There was also a bag with seven ball bearings which were probably used and reused as projectiles. I asked my NCOs who informed me that this was not a gook gun this was a “Hunter” gun. By the way, in Africa the local words for hunter and poacher are the same. Recalling my own upbringing in the hills of Western Oregon (Where the local words for hunter and poacher were the same.) I had the lads put everything back the way we found it, cover it back up, and we marched on.

    Wafa Wafa, Wasara Wasara.

      1. W. Fleetwood

        Yep, followed by Southwest Africa (Namibia) and some excursions in Central America. I was once young and foolish, now I’m just foolish.

        Wafa Wafa, Wasara Wasara.

  8. Boat Guy

    Interesting stuff, as ever. Your ratios of Resister, Supporter, Quisling and Apathetic Bystander seem about right. Still, we DO have the precedent of a successful reistance to King George’s tyranny and I do see the opposite example ala Aaron Zelman ; IF confiscators are met early enough and consistently enough with lethal resistance it COULD go the other way.
    Sad to see the detrioration in the Haganah cache; I could identify a Vickers GPMG and other treasures.
    The prospect of a “civil” war is awful to contemplate (I was an accidental tourist in Bosnia and Kosovo), but I think we are closer to it than at any time since 1859.

    1. DSM

      “Sad to see the detrioration in the Haganah cache; I could identify a Vickers GPMG and other treasures.”

      Methinks I see a PIAT in there too. No man braver than the gunner of one of those.

  9. Kirk

    RE: Civil War in the US.

    Honestly rather doubt it’s going to get down to a level where the US looks like the nation formerly known as Yugoslavia. Our form of government and traditions don’t really support that sort of thing, although we are getting there slowly.

    What’s going to start happening, I suspect, is that the folks like those running the Bureau of Land Management out in the sticks are going to find it hard to live out there, because nobody is going to rent to them, or sell to them. Accidents are going to start happening every time they leave their offices, and mysterious coincidences are going to accrue, and none of it is really going to be actionable. Bit by bit, they’re going to find their “management” job a hell of a lot harder, and they only have themselves to blame, since they’re the idiots who decided the locals were the enemy. We’ll know we’ve reached the end stage of this process about the time we hear of BLM managers and employees having their homes burnt down, and being assassinated. And, if we stay on the course we’re on, that’s going to be almost inevitable.

    I think the more likely case is that the Feds are going to get reined in, just like after the Prohibition’s excesses. We tend to take these things in cycles, where the control freaks have their way for a generation or two, and then the rest of us go “Yeah… Not putting up with this bullshit, anymore…”, and vote the enablers out of office. The next wave of government change is going to find very fertile ground for anyone saying “Get the Feds out…”, and we’ll see a cycle of people going into office to do just that.

    Or, not. We may have finally reached a point where violence is unavoidable, and the sad fact is that the asshole control freaks have been the ones to make it so. Doesn’t matter if they work for King George, or the EPA, they always go too far, and its the same petty bureaucratic operatives that do the damage. They want power, in order to abuse it. So, they do, and the rest of us have to put up with their bullshit until it’s intolerable. Witness the VA–See how little accountability there is, there? Imagine the VA in control of your daily life, demonstrating that same arrogance and control-freak mentality. Think they’d last very long, before decorating the local lamp posts?

  10. DSM

    I don’t know that we would see an all-out “Balkanization” of the country but you do get the sense of more people feeling disenfranchised. As Kirk related in his 3rd paragraph above, I think it’ll correct itself as more people have “WTF” moments.
    I got my NATO medal in the mid 90’s, in the relative quiet after the split and before Kosovo kicked off. It was still a mess, you don’t want that here.

  11. S

    No resistance movement is ever successful without significant external help. The will to continue without fatal compromise will be more important than any amount of cached goodies, because thoughts are more important than physical weapons. Most of today’s preppers would perish in Bushwhacker/Jayhawker style fratricide before being mopped up; which is why increased gun sales and general prepping hysteria is beneficial and not a setback to the fundamental transformation’s goal. It will be the cached battlefield scavenges equipping the survivors that really worry the kingdom.

    Stashed hard-copy manuals, books and communications materials will be more useful to the awakening sheeple after us, when the bars and chains have become so obvious and galling that they wake up. Those who have already self-identified as liberty-minded or are potentially dangerous by ideology, capability or position have already been designated for liquidation, re-education or close monitoring. Remember Cambodia? The different phases and milestones of the Eastern European experience 1945-1990? Distill the salient characteristics of all previous examples and expect the next improved iteration to be specially tailored for the current conditions and recipients, in accordance with the desired result.

    Nowadays such thinking is derided as “black helicopter”; once upon a time it was “brown trucks”, and before that “dragoons” or “chariots” or whatever form the gang enforcers took. There is nothing new under the sun.

    1. staghounds

      Reined in after Prohibition? The whole purpose of Repeal was to get more taxes for the U. S. government to
      “fight the Depression”. And Prohibition was followed immediately by an explosion of previously unimaginable Federal power intrusion- the NRA and New Deal.

      You’ll have to look awfully hard to find a case where government power was “reined in” by the ballot box. The destruction of segregation sort of qualifies, I suppose. Although the courts pushed that, and oddly enough the ballot box parts- anti discrimination laws, mainly- actually expand government control over new areas.

      I wish the weapons cachers and three percenters would spend half the money and time on practical politics.

      1. Boat Guy

        Be interested to see your definition of “practical politics”. Mine own is LOCAL. City. County – especially my Sheriff.
        Having just been mudsucked by mine own Senator endorsing “more of the same” after working very “practically” to move him from House to Senate; I’m a trifle wary of politics , “practical” or otherwise at any other level.

  12. RobRoySimmons

    Regimes one day have legitimacy then one day not and you have to replace the silverware in the palace. Steven Barry wrote in the Resister that you have to turn in something and it has to be decent now regardless of the legitimacy of the Resister or Barry that sounds like good advice

  13. 10x25mm

    Bacteria is actually the most common cause of rust on ferrous metal surfaces. These little guys convert their diet into corrosive excretions. Barium sulfonate in a wax film is the best long term corrosion inhibitor. Mil-PRF-16173E Grade 2 Class 1 covers such inibitors. Not suitable for brass, copper or silver due to the sulpher, but the very best long term inhibitor for all ferrous and most nonferrous metals. Leather, too.

    Cartridge brass suffers stress corrosion cracking (SCC, ‘season cracking’) in the presence of nitrites, nitrates, amines, and ammonia. Ammunition must be carefully protected from fertilizers and urine. So caching ammunition in agricultural districts or in the vicinity of septic systems is problematical.

  14. John M.

    The Progressive Elite is a lot smarter than the average Feel the Bern voter. No, they won’t confiscate. They’ll just criminalize and then wait. Connecticut and NY are the models. Don’t send armed goons door-to-door to sweep up hidden guns. Just let the criminality hang over people like a cloud. Scoop up a few who are unlucky enough to get caught by house fires or letting cops into their houses for whatever reason. Those are just to make an example. Above all, they’ll avoid a spark that would start coordinated action. They did learn SOMETHING from Ruby Ridge and Waco.

    Your grandchildren are as likely to dig up a cache and start shooting the Progressive Elite as the average grandchild of a Nazi is to start shooting German Progressive Elites: not very.

    These folks are patient, and they’ve been winning for hundreds of years. We need a different plan for our culture to survive.

    -John M.

  15. Arsenal 762

    Hognose, I have to say you read my mind. I typed out a comment to a recent UW post you had recently requesting something of this nature and thought better of it because I’m of the mind that a civil war-triggering collapse is much less likely than a continuing controlled swiss-stair revert to the new normal. Thanks for pointing out the logical fallacies in the zombie apocalypse mindset. More posts like this are appreciated.

  16. Bdk NH

    Good read and I look forward to the next installments. We are 7 days with no power from turning into caveman as I have personally witnessed in my own little NH town. For this reason, I tend to think of a regional short duration high intensity civil breakdown as more of a threat than civil war but perhaps I am wrong. On NHPR driving in to the gym a few days back, some old lady running a diner in Winchester, NH after lamenting that there were no good candidates declared something to the effect of “something needs to change, we need a revolution.” The leap from revolution to civil war is a small one especially when the progressives are more than willing to utilize “muscle over here” to get rid of the opposition. The point is, thoughts become words and words become deeds. The thought is going mainstream.

  17. euro

    yup, thanks, good writeup.

    sold my guns and gave up my licenses before the central computerized register.

    going dark, unarmed civilian.

    more about that staybehind gladio thing, pleeese.

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  19. Paul from Canada

    In my library I have The Negotiator by “James March”, a pseudonym of a man who helped invent ransom negotiation consulting for K&R policy holders. The book is mostly about some of his more interesting cases and how the system works, but also a little bit about his background. It is this part that is Germain to the subject of this discussion. While serving as an infantry officer in the British Army he accidentally discovered a weapons cache while on patrol, (he noticed water draining into a flagstone sidewalk, where it shouldn’t have). This gave him an interest in finding caches.

    His next tour was on the border, much more rural and with more scope for cache hunting, and he became became quite good at it. He and his platoon became so good at it that he was asked to write a paper about it and ended up being “…loaned to the S.A.S. to assist them in a study of some sort”, (which led to contacts that ultimately led to him getting involved with Control Risks as a K&R negotiator and consultant).

    He came up with a list of requirements that he thought a terrorist would use in selecting a cache site, then went to locations where previous caches had been found and checked them against his list. He found most sites matched all or most of his criteria, (depending on the type of cache), so he set about looking for other sites that matched his criteria (while going about his regular patrols), with considerable success.

    His list:
    – A recognition feature that could be unmistakeably described verbally to a second party
    – Close to a road, track or railway line.
    – An area not likely to be investigated by domestic, digging animals like pigs or dogs.
    – A covered approach.
    – An area which was easy to watch prior to pickup.
    – A site which was easy to recognize at night.
    – If possible, not on a regular military patrol route.
    – Possibly an area which was under permanent observation from a farmhouse or the like.
    – A site which offered natural hiding places such as ruined buildings, walls, the roots of large trees or hedgerows.

    He also speaks a bit about the different types of caches. Some where carefully constructed underground caches for long term storage, others were short term hides for weapons “in transit”. There were also weapons “laid ready for use” (i.e. placed in a temporary “drop” for pickup for a particular op).

    He and his team also tried to develop some tactics relating to finds. Sometimes they would deliberately “miss” finding a hide, “…make a play of rooting around in the undergrowth some distance away in case anybody was watching and then retire in obvious defeat.”. “This line of thought occurred to me after we were told that we were being successful enough for the IRA to suspect that they had an informer giving away hide locations. I deduced that …..failing to find it, we might give observers the notion that we were acting on information but were simply not clever or alert enough to locate the site.”. The idea was to ambush the cache hoping that the IRA would feel it was compromised and try to move it, or for the IRA to go on an informant hunt, with the attendant loss of trust, cohesion,morale and effectiveness that that would cause.

    I found it very interesting to see the weapons cache issue from the security force’s perspective, and the discussion (although brief) about types of cache. Articles about caching usually talk about how to build a long term cache, but little about how to “use” it. You don’t see much on stuff like he mentions, things like monitoring a cache, passing the location and info to a third party, temporary caches for weapons in transit, drops left from a cache for a third party’s use etc etc.

  20. Granddad_was_a_Kerryman

    Regarding Point Two, Listowel, Ireland 1919. The majority of the force mutinied when ordered to attack civillians. Undermining the will of the police force was critical to the IRA’s sucess.

    1. Hognose Post author

      Will have to look into that. The Irish insurgency in all its many phases is a very interesting study. The original Republicans got most of what they wanted, all bit sovereignty over the six counties where immigrant (!) English and Scots outnumbered them. And that triggered the Irish Civil War between the faction that would accept that and the death-or-glory boys. And then it reached what I call an Equilibrium of Violence acceptable to both sides.

      Certainly by the IRA resurgence of 1966-70 institutional Britain wanted an honorable way out, and most Irish of both races had a preference for how it ended, but just wanted it to be over. But then you had hard-liners on both sides driving the policy, and any attempt at compromise forced another schism, and spawned a new hardline IRA spinoff or Loyalist death squad.

  21. Somerbiwak

    Interesting trivia about the founder of Soldier of Fortune.

    The garbled author’s name does not exactly instill confidence in the translation’s quality. But then I am better at reading German than english anyway. ;)

    1. George Soros

      Kind of fun if you like guilt tripping inherently altruistic brits with the mask of humanitarianism. So do you have any of this horizontal propaganda aimed at rich gulf states? No? Why not?

  22. Timbo

    Folks…I have to say that if you are thinking confiscation will be door-to-door in this country….It probably won’t go down that way. Think about how tax money is extorted. When this event takes place the key to stopping it will be to keep the postman off his route. Mail delivery will have to be shut down completely using threats and intimidation. You have to be prepared to tell your mailman to stay away.

  23. Quill_&_Blade

    First off, the thing that pales all other related discussion: people think horizontal, not vertical. Even committed Christians often have a Deist mindset; that God wound up the watch, set it on a table, and walked away. I don’t claim to be a prophet, but it looks to me like our biggest problem is that God removed His restraint. We’ve had problems for centuries, but something happened in the early 1960’s, and His restraint was gone.
    That said, thanks for bringing this up, it’s a very thought provoking post. I personally have this idea, hopefully not unrealistic, that I’ll leave the country before a civil war breaks out. Irrationality abounds here, it’s getting worse by the day, it’s difficult to stay in a place that hurts the mind. 10 or 15 years ago a guy told me we need a revolution. I asked him who it is that would staff the replacement government. All manner of committee, sub committee, and field office positions would have to be filled. Sorry to say it, but most people in this country are fair weather friends, I don’t see them being less corruptible than the current batch.
    If hostilities do break out, the clueless masses don’t have the fortitude to withstand inconveniences. Regardless of who actually interrupted the electricity or water, the rebels will be blamed by a controlled media. I have a nephew that ran an in town apartment moving company in a large city. They always left the customer’s TV on the truck ( in the fine print the customer signed ), without saying so, until after they were paid. Often, people would try to stiff them. When they were informed of the TV’s location, they panicked, borrowed money from neighbors, whatever it took to get the TV back.
    It seems like there would be a “gun behind every blade of grass”, but the rebels had better move swiftly, as they won’t have the support of a sympathetic populace for long. And we’re way past the days of some degree of respect between the right and left. The progressives have a visceral disdain for conservatives, and will have no restraint in using whatever means they can to kill the opposition. Small groups are probably better than large ones, because you might be met with way more than small arms fire or conventional weapons. But I have zero experience in such things, that’s best left to others to say.
    I’ve contemplated this subject for years, if such a party doesn’t already exist, I say our only hope is the Covenant Party. Make a covenant with God as to what we’ll do if He lets us retain all or part of this country.

    1. SOTM

      To “retain” any of it is going to be a fight. Like you said, they are “visceral” and will not be satisfied with what they have. The good thing is God is sovereign. If He is not, we have no hope. Maybe this is all part of his plan to purify his church in this land. One thing we can count on is, if God has a people and his people are present then he is present. We must examen what our foundation as men is made of and determine if we have slipped from it or if there ever was one.

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  25. James Glackin

    Another great example of weapon cache’s turning up due to development is Finland. After WWII a secret and officially unsanctioned military operation occurred where a large amount of Finnish Army weapons and equipment was hidden in caches scattered around the country. The intent was to be able to resist a Communist take over, be it an active invasion by the Soviets or the Soviets being “invited” in by a Finnish Communist government. The plan was to hide enough equipment for 8,000 people, but the conspirators were apparently very enthusiastic and hid enough to arm 35,000+. The Valpo, the Finnish Security Intelligence Service, was unable to break the conspiracy fully, even after interrogating 5,000 odd people. So, these cache’s turn up on the regular in Finland when old building get renovated, recently one cache was found with two-three crates of Panzerfausts in it.

  26. Dave

    I think there is a difference between civil and revolutionary war in the way people react, and I think that hinges on that ‘legitimate authority’ you were talking about. When you have to chose which authority you are going to legitimate things change. In the US a large enough fraction of English citizens agreed that the king was no long legitimate. Even then with a huge ocean delaying information and reinforcements the future US came very close to extinction before its birth.

    In the South vs. North war dividing lines were quite clear, Union or Confederate, Slavery or no Slavery.

    The French Revolution recognized the monarchy was not legit, but then the bloodily struggled to define who and what was legit after the monarchy’s removal.

    In WWII there was a successful underground. Yes they lost grievous losses, and innocent people were murdered for the undergrounds actions and simple existence, but the movies make it look like they were of value, but I do not know the truth of it.

    We are all going to die so make it count. Do not go to war if possible, but if your inalienable rights are to be taken away where they once existed the individual must act. We are nowhere near that stage.

  27. Tom Kratman

    1980s Beirut is what the next one’s going to look like. We’re too intermixed for anything else. The only difference is that we’re a lot better armed, on average, and have a cultural propensity for violence almost no one can match.

  28. ebd10

    I have had this conversation numerous times with people that think that their “Red Dawn” fantasy is the way it’s going to be. It’s easy to declare your eternal defiance to tyranny from the safety of a bar stool or break room. It’s entirely different when you’re looking at the body of your wife who just had her throat cut, and your daughter is being raped by “soldiers” as they’re threatening to cut your son’s hand off with a machete. (All of these methods are popular in Sub-Saharan Africa)

    OR, when the nice policeman, who just spent the last 8 hours taking turns with his buddies beating you with rubber hoses, decides that they have been too easy on you and switch to brass knuckles. (NYPD was famous for this). Even better, the Secret Police decide that they would rather go to the shore for the weekend and trade the waterboard for the car battery wired to your dangly parts to expedite the process. (STASI)

    But, for the sake of argument, let’s say that you’re not an OFG; you are in good shape, single, and well-trained. Now you get to spend your life looking over your shoulder, trusting no one, forming no long term relationships, never having a job, and having to be in Condition Orange forever. The closest analogy I can think of is Eric Rudolph; sure, he had to have help to evade the FBI for as long as he did. But, in the end, he was captured while dumpster diving because he was starving. He now sits in a SuperMax prison, never to see the outside world again.

    If, God forbid, you end up in a fight, you’ll be outgunned, outnumbered and the people with you may or may not know what they are doing. Many have held up the Viet Cong and the Mujahideen as examples of successful insurgencies. They leave out the small detail that the kill ratio was about 40 to 1 in favor of the professional armies. The Viet Cong ceased to exist as a fighting force after Tet ’68. We had killed them and everyone that supported them. After 1968, the NVA had to engage because they had run out of useful fools. The Muj were being decimated by the Soviet Army. The only reason they ‘succeeded’ was because the USSR was beginning to crumble and, by 1982, couldn’t afford to continue campaigns in Afghanistan while supporting insurgencies in Zimbabwe, South Africa, Zaire, Angola, Central and South America, and the Middle East. Still and all, they killed hundreds of thousands of Aghanis, (to the point where any Afghani that knew anything about rifle shooting had become extinct) by both conventional and unconventional means (remember the exploding toys designed to keep little ones from becoming big ones? Think about the Clintons and then tell yourself that our politicians would never do that here.)

    Plus, there would be no ROE to restrain the government forces from committing atrocities. ANYONE connected to you, no matter how tenuously, would be fair game (“He came into your store everyday and you NEVER heard him say anything about the government?”) This, then, is where the escalation begins; government forces kill a family member, so the insurgents blow up the police chief’s car with his wife and children in it who, in turn, shoots 20 people in reprisal.

    And if you think that we, as members of Western Civilization are too good to sink so low, I recommend you read some of the accounts about the war in the Balkans during the 90’s. If you think that Officer Friendly won’t hold a gun to your neck and pull the trigger, pick up a copy of “Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland” These were guys that were “just doing their job.”

    Civil War? If ever there was an astronomically ironic misnomer, there it is.

  29. Lowell Fultz

    Obviously, a very concise article from an even more obviously reliable source. All I can say is, thanks for completely destroying what small hopes I had of ever being able to stop the destruction of the USA. I guess I’m now in, “how many can I take with me” mode.

    1. Tom Kratman

      Pretty much, Lowell, and not necessarily pointless. The more that can be taken down, the fewer that will be enthusiastic about following the same path.

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