Iranian Capture of US Boats

Here’s a picture sent out by Secretary Kerry’s special friends, the Iranian government.

Navy Surrender3 It shows Navy sailors and officers surrendering to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. There is a dispute about what happened — one of their boats was disabled, and they say they were in international waters, the Iranians said they weren’t.

Navy Surrender8

The US boats (one of them on right) surrendered to small craft of the IRGC (left) with no attempt at self-defense.

The question could be answered by the several GPS devices on the boats. The Iranians, however, chose to retain them with the US State Department’s blessings, when it returned the crewmen. It’s unknown whether the Iranians returned the small arms and the cryptographic and communications equipment on the boats.

That the Iranians kept the GPS units suggests that our boats were in international waters. That no US ship or aircraft responded to defend them suggests that maybe they were not — or resources are just too thin in the region, after a decade of dismantling the Navy.

The two boats went together into Iranian captivity.  The boats appear to be riverine support craft, not Special Operations Combatant Craft. But we’re not experts in boat details… that’s the Navy’s department, the Frogs and the Boat Guys would know.

Tied up to the pier by their Iranian prize crews.

Tied up to the pier by their Iranian prize crews.

Prediction: some admiral, somewhere, is more worked up over the boat being dirty than he was by the boat being captured. 

Navy Surrender9

The next morning, the two boats were tied up alongside the Boston Whaler copies that outsailor’d ’em.

The Iranians gleefully displayed their trophies. Trophy weapons:

Navy Surrender5

The Elcan Spectre DR 1-4 power scope seen on the M4A1 is, or used to be, a special operations signature optic. But again, these do not appear to have been SOF sailors.

Navy Surrender6

More after the jump. The Navy and the nation should both hide their faces — neither covered themselves with glory here today.

…and trophy female captive. This female sailor was made to wear the islamic headdress that signifies the second-class, slave status of Iranian women.

Navy Surrender10

The Iranians claim that this next picture is that of a “commander” who is apologizing, groveling and abasing himself before his captors.

Navy Surrender4

Given the history of the IRGC, that’s probably all lies. If it isn’t… it’s a damn good thing that John Paul Jones, David Farragut, and Arleigh Burke aren’t alive to see it.

Navy Surrender7

The Iranians thought this was a lot of ammunition. Have a look! First, it’s probably less than most of your closets or ammo lockers. Second, were the boats really this lightly armed?

The Iranian seizure of the boats happened hours before the President’s State of the Union address, in which he patted himself on the back for the great advances he had made with Iran. Meanwhile, DOD was given the usual order from this bunch — “stand down!” and the elite forces of the Foreign Service swung into action.

Navy Surrender12Bogged down in a quagmire of Iranian denials, they had to call in the diplomatic Big Gun: Secretary of State John Kerry. Kerry delivered the apology that the Iranians insisted on. Indeed, he took it a step farther: he thanked the IRGC goons for rescuing our sailors.

We’re not sure what he’s on, but we are pretty confident that a fellow can overdose on it.

Scroll back up to that first picture. Does that look like a rescue to you?


51 thoughts on “Iranian Capture of US Boats

    1. Hognose Post author

      That guy’s instagram has some interesting images, including one of a LtJG’s jacket with what I think is a surface warfare badge. Thanks for the links.


    The Iranians sure are getting feisty lately. I don’t think it’s going to end well for them.

  2. whskee

    It’s embarrassing as hell. This is a Riverine Command Boat (RCB). It shouldn’t really be out in open ocean being a river boat based on the Swedish CB-90. The MK VI Patrol Boat is set to replace them for that role.

    It is typically armed with a Mk 49 ROSAM (M2HB), and 4 crew served mounts which can be a mix of Mk 44 Miniguns, M240’s, or M2HB’s. Mk 19 AGL’s are in inventory but not typically in play. The boat can fight, if they make the choice to fight. It is an armored platform. Most of their people are not from the old Riverine Squadrons, and it shows. Their training has taken a severe degradation. Real Riverines have been getting axed since the merger of Mobile Security Squadrons, who are basically harbor patrol and very much not combat minded culturally. They make a lot of stupid mistakes and don’t take those mistakes seriously, hence, why this shit happens.

    These guys made a lot of really dumb mistakes that led to them being behind the lines they should have been. An unintentional incursion will only be made way worse by lighting off the guns at that point. Resist capture absolutely, but understand the repercussions are severe when you are in the wrong to begin with. If they would have done the things that basic Riverines of just a few years ago were trained to do, this never would have happened. They just gave the force a black eye. I’d be surprised if they continue the mission they were there to do.

    1. Eric

      +1 ^

      Totally concur and only have a few things to add. You nailed it.

      1) These guys just failed basic seamanship and the biggest travesty here will be if every single one of them doesn’t have their quals pulled. They shouldn’t have even been that far out with those platforms combined with the shocking evidence of low standards/lack of training. Ok, so GPS failed – on BOTH boats? What about the paper chart? My watch has a GPS, and I have a handheld in my boat bag. Plain and simple, the coxswain a lost SA of their position, most likely because their experience base is visual nav within sight of the coast. Long nav runs out of sight of land are generally a SWCC skill set in my experience and not practiced to providence in Navy NCW.

      2) ROE in re Iran as far back as 2003 in Naval Coast Warfare Group One was to “take cover and call higher for guidance”. Armed Iranian boats were not uncommon near the GOPLATS. 3 guys were killed in early 2004 by a suicide boat, but chain of command was ALWAYS more worried about firing too quickly than they were about not firing quickly enough. This isn’t unique to NCW, it’s a Surface Warfare culture problem that stems from the concept of how you “fight” a ship – the individual sailor isn’t a fighting unit. His job is to operate the weapon while the CIC tells him where to point it and when to pull the trigger. Also, keep in mind that Achievement Medals have been awarded to junior sailors in that AOR who didn’t open fire when the ROE clearly indicated that they should have, but imperiled themselves and their ships waiting for higher to decide not to shoot for diplomatic reasons. The word is generally out – if you don’t shoot and get blown up you’re a hero, but if you shoot and are wrong (based on things you couldn’t have known at the time) the CoC will hang you out.

      3) To our eternal shame, the whole reason the USN has this mission at all is because the USCG was too risk averse after losing Nate Bruckenthal in the KABOT bombing & waved off, in my opinion.

      4) Given all of the above, I’m surprised that they had ammo or weapons at all. They were reportedly doing a boat swap between Kuwait & Bahrain. The basic load of ammo in NCW is probably 10% of what NSW would have on the same boat. At kickoff in OIF we were handed 3-30 round magazines and 90 rounds each by NCW. It’s a cultural problem with the fleet Navy that’s never going away.

      1. Hognose Post author

        Don’t mess around in boats any more, but when I did, backup to the GPS was dead reckoning. Still use that while flying, despite radio nav and GPS gear. Anybody who can’t navigate without his electronic signposts needs to stay within sight of land in boats, or follow roads in airplanes. A man’s gotta know his limitations.

        1. Boat Guy

          I too am a long time past operating or even messing around and I feel personal shame (and near rage) for what has happened in this case. I note the mags were presented in some kinda wooden box – likely where they were stowed.
          My question has been – were the boats rigged for tow? In earlier times it was doctrine to have bridles forward and tow lines aft rigged for instant use; we got a LOT of practice at towing and being towed because, hey if you don’t wind up in the mud occasionally you’re not pushing hard enough. These RCB’s are in many respects far more seaworthy than the PBR’s operating in the area during EARNEST WILL, but I suspect that the questions regarding training and SA above point to some endemic problems.
          As for “Anybody who can’t navigate without his electronic signposts… ” they just need to stay the hell home; don’t even take in the lines/pull the chocks; you’re not qualified to operate the vessel/aircraft.

      2. RJ

        Women on board ship?

        Equal pay, discrimination….who cares about combat ready when diversity is the name of the game.

        Take the oath to defend this country with your life…do you really mean it? Are you crazy?

        It’s a career fool! Pay attention to the benefits and retirement package.

        Due your duty sailor! What duty is their response.

  3. Kirk

    Something is off with the whole story, and I don’t know what. I just know there’s something off.

    If those boats were adrift, and wound up in Iranian territorial waters by misadventure, which appears to be the story, what are the odds that both would go down at the same time? If they weren’t both suffering engine failure, why didn’t the one that was still operational tow the other one back? Isn’t that the reason they have them move in pairs?

    Secondly, if they weren’t in Iranian waters, why didn’t they resist? What are the rules, there? The ROE when I was over there was… Quite liberal. And, I hung around with the boat guys, a little, back in 2003, scrounging parts for Army bridge boats up in Iraq. The base those guys likely went out of was one I used to frequent, gathering shit up for up north. BS’ing with the Navy guys, it was quite illuminating to find out just how weird shit could get, out in the Gulf, and how much leeway they had for firing shit up. From what I was told, running into Iranian dipshits with boats making trouble wasn’t that uncommon, and the policy back then was “Fire ’em up”. Now? I’d be curious to know, to tell you the truth…

    Something is seriously off with the whole story, here. The route those guys are supposed to be taking for transit between Kuwait and down south is waaaay out of casual drifting range into Iranian waters, if I understood things right. I’m talking like, clear to hell and gone across the Gulf from Iran–If they were inside the normal sea lanes for that transit, we’re talking like miles away from the Iranian waters, and they should have been under overwatch, of some kind.

    Something about this whole deal smells, and I don’t know what.

    1. Hognose Post author

      Fuel exhaustion would deadline both boats at about the same time. I’d have to believe running out of gas is a relief-for-cause error even when you don’t wind up abasing yourself on al-IRGC.

      1. seans

        While I really doubt that they both went out of fuel at one time. If one goes down hard, you are going to burn a lot of fuel towing it.

    2. whskee

      A boat lost engines, the other was circling while they were troubleshooting. They weren’t paying attention to where they were drifting, just loitering and waiting while trying to get the boat back online. Boat ended up aground in shoal water while messing around with the engines. These boats are made for insert/extract so going into a beach in itself isn’t a big deal, but they are heavy and jet driven. If the suction grates suck up a bunch of crud, you won’t have the power to unbeach yourself. Supposedly one boat had also lost comms, but I call BS because Iridium’s are kept aboard as a tertiary, and you can pull a PRC-152 out of the rack and plug it straight into the damned topside antennae.

      Somewhere in this, the other boat finally started getting a clue that they should rig the tow bridles and pull her out, which should have been done immediately anyway. All boat guys keep at least a hasty tow rig in place just for this reason. During this phase the Iranian Coasties rolled up on them and called in the IRGN. They were inside Iranian waters by this point, so shooting would’ve been out of the question since they screwed up, and not the other way around. Word I got was the boats were not PMC to begin with, and were transiting from Kuwait to Bahrain, not on mission. I still can’t get word whether they initiated the destruction plan to erase/zero/destroy anything sensitive aboard. Lots should have been done differently, and this absolutely didn’t have to go down this way.

  4. JAFO

    I had thought I could no longer be surprised by the fecklessness and mendacity of the Obama administration.

  5. SPEMack

    This is just off. Like the guys on the Pueblo were getting shot to Hell. The Turner Joy sunk a Gook PT boat. I mean, seriously, what the hell?

    1. Hognose Post author

      We don’t know whether they had coms and what their ROE or orders were. While I can’t see a JG deciding on his own to surrender, I can see a flag-hungry Captain or suck-up Admiral ordering him to do it.

      1. SPEMack

        True statement. However, I can’t figure out, for the life of me, after two hours worth of map work,and Googling, what small boats would be doing there?

        1. Hognose Post author

          My guess is that they were on some type of intel mission. Perhaps bringing audio receivers or direction finders in closer to IRGC collection or location targets. And when things went pear-shaped, one hopes they dumped the mission gear, technical data etc. if that was the case.

          The Iranians have shown pics of the boats motoring away. I wonder who they billed for the diesel?

          Correction: It looks like I was probably wrong about an intel mission. It was just a series of cascading cock-ups. Desert One, without a body count, fortunately.

  6. Doug

    Looks like those guys just got Swift Boated by the ketchup trust fund prince.

    Maybe one of these days some warriors, if there are any who aren’t social justice warriors, left in the .mil will have a splendid good old fashioned coup, you know the kind, one waged against tin pot dicktator’s in a banana republic, or like ones where you go after enemies foreign and in particular, domestic.

  7. James

    …and Obama made it a point last night in the State of the Union speech that the U.S. Is by far the most powerful nation on earth, while THIS was unraveling in the background?? We sure don’t act like it.

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  9. Bdk NH

    Come on…don’t believe a thing you’ve read or heard. The US and the Iranians are both lying. The boats weren’t in Iranian waters and didn’t break down. They were overrun and outgunned by the Iranians to humiliate the US/Obama for his last SOTUA. It pisses me off that these kids were put in this position with inferior boats, fire power, and support. No firepower available overhead on over watch?

    WWIII is on. Iran is looking for a fight. They keep this up and they might get the President on the next go round that will accommodate them.

  10. Jack Mehoff

    Instead of eating and lounging about, they should have been giving the photographers the finger and stating loudly “go fuck yourself”. Generation X pussies.

    1. obsidian

      Orders from HQ to comply with any, all and every Iranian demand most likely sent ASAP.
      The Sailors simply followed orders.
      The Marine Guards at the Tehran Embassy did the same during the hostage crisis per orders to stand down and comply.

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  14. obsidian

    The US and Iran are not at war officially.
    This was a ship/boat in distress event.
    Rules of the sea make assistance mandatory for any and all ships/boats in the area.
    The boats were in need of assistance and received it.
    Iran took full advantage of the situation and used it for full propaganda value.
    There is somewhere a rule in Iran to take advantage of any crisis situation involving the rest of the world.
    There was no RoE because there is no war between US and Iran per direction Washington D. C. and State department, we are all just dear, dear friends now.

    The US elected the leadership we are currently under they knew who, what, when and where the persons elected political stance was in their world view.
    What did anyone after all the last seven years expect?
    We got what we elected.

  15. S

    If elections actually changed anything important, they’d be illegal.

    Modern communications technology and information processing gives us the theoretical ability for representatives to ask each individual citizen their intent on the issue-du-jour. A weekly referendum, if you will. Chances of that happening? The Canklebeest, Prince Condiment, the Golfer and Michael…. rendered irrelevant.

  16. Cap'n Mike

    If the facts match whats being reported, it seems like gross incompetence is the cause.

  17. Torres

    These U.S. Boats weren’t packing enough firepower to fend off Iranians in open Boston Whalers? Someone higher up had to tell these hapless squids to stand down…

      1. TF-BA

        I couldn’t agree more. I’d like to add the following;

        Unskilled and woefully unaware of how unskilled you, your team and leadership are; is no way to conduct yourself as part of the World’s Finest Navy.

        I have a Kirk-esque style rant waiting to get unleashed and I’m doing my best to wait because I don’t want to go completely high and right. If this comedy of errors unfolds the way I believe it will; mark my words that the phrases “running out of luck”, “I only have ___ until I retire/get promoted”, “mall cops”, “Shout, shove, show, shoot”, “3M professionals” and “children with inappropriate toys” will prolly appear.

  18. emdfl

    I’m still having trouble figuring out just how both of those boats ended up so far offshore. Even assuming one boat breaks down(both engines go bad at the same time? – maybe a bad load of fuel?) The first thing you do is heave a line to maintain position. At least if you know what you are doing…
    Ooops, probably answered that question and all the follow-ons.

  19. S

    About three years ago the Iranians claimed to have spoofed GPS and shot down a drone. Perhaps they managed a similar trick in this incident, so fortuitously timed for the State of The Target speech of “when things go hard I will side with the muslims” Barry Hussein.

    The weather looked nice, apparently a milk run ferry-trip, by brown-water sailors; how regular are those admin trips? How much help was rendered from inside….such as time/location/equipment tipoffs from the ports, technical info from moles (you betcha they’re there, all the way up, and from several hosts), and surreptitious go-aheads on the QT from symps in positions of power (Lurch?)?

    The way things are going, anyone still in uniform without their head up anyone’s rear should be mighty careful, for betrayals of all sorts. 5GW is here to stay.

    1. TF-BA

      Occam’s Razor applies to this very well my friend. The only thing you will probably find in the shadows of this is a Chief’s Mess who is X time from retirement, a PO corps who tries to get laid by sending a written permission request for “Carnal Knowledge” to the ladies parents and their CO, then waits as the officer corps reviews the requests and sends them on with notes to higher command.

      Institutional flaccidity. You may dislike your national leaders and for good reason. This is a reason to dislike weak, obstructionist, careerist, retirement minded POGs who lack the intestinal fortitude to believe in the very structure they have been charged with maintaining.

      Our Military is great because of how superb NCO leadership and training has been for… forever. Training, communication and discourse among the ranks is why we win. There were at least 2 SNCO’s responsible for training that boat commander or TL or whatever. They failed miserably. You think an LTJG is actually in charge of anything? Maybe he was. That would have been mistake numba fuckin one (or is it numba fuckin ten?).

      IF there is a betrayal to be found; it is the betrayal of sailors by other sailors. Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance. It is the responsibility of NCO’s to set the standard for training, which lead to mission accomplishment.

      The whole world can forsake you. Being surrounded by a well trained and cohesive group of men is the next best thing to dominant air support you will ever get.

      I know it isn’t lost on Hognose or others, but grounded on a coastal beach is how every amphibious assault begins. At any given time all around the globe our men stand at the ready, sans guile, apology or excuse; letting the leaflets requesting surrender fly on to the beaches, streets and rooftops, ready to destroy all in their path from the sea.

      Failure to understand this is Institutional weakness. Assume 25% rotten apples and 25% Bricks with a sad face painted on them, then 20% FNGs, 20% who know better and 10% vaginas.

      There is your apolitical explanation. I’m already shooting from the hip, and without the humor. My apologies.

  20. S

    The importance of the NCO is surely not lost on those who drive Fundamental Transformation. In fact, I’d say the NCO type of person is one of the main target groups. Hence the genderbending doctrine, amongst others, that serves as catalyst to force good people out, either in disgust, or flushed out into the open and defeated piecemeal before the kangaroo court or backstabbed with the admin dagger. Mediocrity is rewarded and protected; excellence in skill and character must be purged. The critical mass of rotten apples has long since been achieved; in that mess, even the best apples will be tainted. Same same everywhere.

    The NCO’s can be outstanding, yet still lose. The Germans proved that twice. They also had fine officers in large numbers, but the failure went higher. The catastrophe was so great partly BECAUSE of the sterling obedience of the lower and middle ranks. The longer the failure trickles down, the worse the front end will get. Whatever creature succeeds Barack 1.0, things will not improve. It is not the kings and generals that decide the course, it is the paymaster. The corruption has spread too far, the patient is as good as dead; perhaps by a miracle and a lot of blood it might recover, but I seriously doubt that. Game is almost over, the fat lady is drawing breath.

    Back to the Boat Incident. The reliance on GPS and the near-death of traditional navigation may not be as bad in the military as in the rest of the world, but this incident was not a long ocean voyage in bad visibility out of contact with other elements (btw, I herd recently that Celestial Navigation was recently re-instated on the compulsory curriculum at Annapolis after some years absence…welcome back Columbus). The compass and the sun were there to show, clearly, to anyone on those boats who cared to look, where they were going; but perhaps they had no NEED to look because they trusted the instruments dependent on RF signals because that’s how it’s done.

    Is it coincidence that just as Weepy in Chief was bloviating about the strength of the legions, regrettable domestic political discord, guns’r’bad, and The Year of The Pen, the Iranians pull off a stunt like this? Nothing in politics is coincidence or luck. The Oregon campout is no accident either. Please add to my “help from the inside” list in my former comment: stacking the personnel deck with damaged goods, and unleash the public relations liars. It would be nice to have more information, especially from sources with substantial truth (won’t hold my breath waiting though). How did this sheetfight come to be?

    I’ve heard of engine trouble; fuel shortage; navigation error, outright piracy. Why did the Iranians take the nav data? To hide the fact that the boats were pirated in international waters, or to hide spoofing? I seriously doubt there is a lack of other evidence; the Gulf is the artery of world oil, there will be traces on something, be it a satellite, a drone, a sub, surface radar, perhaps even AIS and/or whatever other gizmos are used out there. What was said over the radio, I’d love to know? Must be a tape of that in Fort Meade, they get it all.

    Why did the Iranians imprison the crews and splurge the photoshoot, and likely go over the boats for whatever goodies they could find? Would they have dared do this with a Reagan or Bush v2.0 in charge? Obama & Co still have to play carefully, sabotaging from the inside without ever tripping the near-comatose alarms of checks and balances (Hillary overextended but is still useful as interference…is she worried about Leavenworth or does she already have a pardon in the pocket?); yet they also send clear signals to their own allies, and the cast-off allies of the FUSA: USA is going down, keep up the pressure/forget any assistance.

    Amphibious landings in force are so 3rd Generation. They have their place, a useful threat-in-being (sorry Mahan), but that’s not the main game play underway right now, and neither is wasting blood and treasure in Afganistan on the bones of the empires that came before you. The longer you continue to lose the real fight at home, the closer you get to the point where you finally wake up and realise that while you’ve been yearning for WW2 all over again (your last “successful” war, not counting your mismatched beating on your own obedient midget Saddam) while Kinsey, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Gramsci, Ayres and Mohamed have buggered you to death.

    The following article is a bit old (2009), but it’s a lowbrow intro into something we’d better get a handle on, if we don’t like gruel in the gulag, muslim massacres, or socialist peaceful unity and equality in death. I’m speaking to you Americans; over here we’re already as done as last year’s turkey. When the next wave of 10 million begin arriving with the spring thaw, things are going to get sportier.

    1. TF-BA

      “Ten men and fifteen camels moving east to west only by night. Three days ahead of us at current pace and location. Will continue pursuit.”

      Is this an an intel report excerpt from 1000 years ago, 100 years or yesterday? I mean seriously camels are so biblical dude! The BGs would totally be in white pick up trucks right? “Amphibious landings in force are so 3rd Generation” yeah until you need one. Wait, it just ain’t an amphib landing unless it’s a mass tactical amphibious assault right? We have never used the threat of one of those in recent history to head fake an army right?

      I’m totally confident that SF guys got massive push back on horsemanship and pack animal training. Until it was cool and on CNN. Why would they need that right? The Calvary is so late 19th Century.

      Actual warfighters prepare for war and as many realities as possible regardless of instruction from “higher”. They will execute that mission because they FULLY UNDERSTAND their life and the lives of those around them depend on it. I bet 10.000 well chosen slightly paranoid words that if you snatched up anyone of those recently unsurrendered sailors and asked them to state their mission it would be A) gibberish and B) NOT “To identify and eliminate the enemy from coastal waters using speed, maneuverability, overwhelming firepower, and disembarked troops for fire and close combat.”

      I gave myself an Sam Adams for staying on topic. Hooray Me!

      P.S. Reading paranoid exposition and arrogant finger wagging is a hobby of mine. Keep up the good work because every salvageable point you made was drown in davy jones locker by a raft of non-starters. Look I just got an email from a buddy at Meade, RE: That dude totally figured us out! and they admitted everything but asked you to calm the hell down and not have a stroke because if you don’t have your health, you have nothing.

  21. TFA303

    A couple of facts to add:

    – Incompetence does not = conspiracy.
    – There was a LOT of Fog of War going on with this incident, which contributes to the story sounding really odd. That’s also not conspiracy.
    – Farsi Island (an Iranian possession) is in the middle of the Gulf along the KUW-BAH transit lane. These guys were not in Iranian mainland TTW.
    – The IRGCN “Boston Whalers” are armed much more heavily than our RCBs, especially when they operate in large groups. In the photo above, you can see the 12-barrel 107mm MRLs each one has, plus DShK’s. The video the Iranians posted also shows some of their torpedo boats present.
    – Speaking of that video, they were able to get that produced and released almost immediately, running circles around our State Department or other PR & IO efforts ; that’s just bonus embarrassment.

  22. TFA303

    A couple of facts to add:

    – Incompetence does not = conspiracy.
    – There was a LOT of Fog of War going on with this incident, which contributes to the story sounding really odd. That’s also not conspiracy.
    – Farsi Island (an Iranian possession) is in the middle of the Gulf along the KUW-BAH transit lane. These guys were not in Iranian mainland TTW.
    – The IRGCN “Boston Whalers” are armed much more heavily than our RCBs, especially when they operate in large groups. In the photo above, you can see the 12-barrel 107mm MRLs each one has, plus DShK’s. The video the Iranians posted also shows some of their torpedo boats present.
    – Speaking of that video, they were able to get that produced and released almost immediately, running circles around our State Department or other PR & IO efforts ; that’s just bonus embarrassment.

  23. Keith

    Nice to see the 7 P’s above. Had to learn that in collage for my fraternity. The one I already new at the time was the Peter Principle and I suspect it was in force somewhere from local command up the chain.

    1. TF-BA

      The disgustingly funny irony is that I picked it up during law school, before I ever thought about the navy. Oh and from a total prick of a real estate professor. He happened to be a former navy zero. I knew there was a reason I disliked him even back then. Zebras never change their stripes.

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